France to consider banning the burka

Posted: Sun 21 Jun 2009 1 04 pm

President Nicolas Sarkozy's government is to consider banning the burka and other Islamic clothing which French MPs claim is degrading to women.

In a move that sparked fierce debate, a group of parliamentarians called for an inquiry into the wearing of the head-to-toe Islamic veil in France and whether Muslim women who cover themselves completely in public constitute an assault on French secularism and women's rights.

In a call that won support from senior figures in Mr Sarkozy's government, they demanded that a parliamentary commission consider the fate in France of the burka, where the eyes are covered by a fabric mesh, and the niqab, which has an eye slit.

snip

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5580732/France-to-consider-banning-the-burka.html

Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 2977 Location: North of Watford

Totally consistent, it could be argued, with their militantly secular, Republican tradition.

Which the UK establishment doesn't share.

Spartacus

Posted: Sun 21 Jun 2009 3 48 pm

Spartacus wrote:

Totally consistent, it could be argued, with their militantly secular, Republican tradition.

So you approve then?

Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 2977 Location: North of Watford

Bulldog wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

Totally consistent, it could be argued, with their militantly secular, Republican tradition.

So you approve then?

Did I say that?

Spartacus

Posted: Sun 21 Jun 2009 8 57 pm

Spartacus wrote:

Did I say that?

Spartacus

Nope, that's why I asked.

Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 2977 Location: North of Watford

Bulldog wrote:

Spartacus wrote:

Did I say that?

Spartacus

Nope, that's why I asked.

I was commenting on why it wasn't so surprising that a French politician should suggest this, rather than on any views I may have - which are pretty irrelevant.

For someone who spends much of his time these days studiously ignoring me, BD, you seem to find my views on such matters surprisingly interesting ... Wink

For what it's worth, I personally find the burka offensive and demeaning. But I'm not a muslim woman and I've never felt that banning items of clothing is likely to solve any of the world's problems.

Spartacus

Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 2902

Spartacus wrote:

For what it's worth, I personally find the burka offensive and demeaning. But I'm not a muslim woman and I've never felt that banning items of clothing is likely to solve any of the world's problems.

My knee-jerk response is to dislike the burkha, but I've also heard of women who find it liberating not to have to walk down the street being oggled by men...where it is imposed on women, it is decidedly offensive. At the same time, I'm aware that the lace mantillas which about half of the women at Mass yesterday were wearing would be considered offensive and demeaning by some.

Ultimately speaking though, I have to agree with you, banning it is hardly going to make any change to anything.

Also, this does fit well into the world of the French Republic - both the Vendee and the notorious law of 1905. Vive le Roi Louis XX'eme

Posted: Mon 22 Jun 2009 9 39 am

I am sure there are some women for whom the burkha is "liberating", as you say TJ, and others who feel happy wearing it for cultural reasons. But you only have to take a walk in one of our cities to be aware that burkha-wearing is on the increase.

So, for many more - especially the younger women - it is clearly a defiant two-fingered salute to Britain and British culture, and I can't say I like that much. If I ever have a slight twinge of "burkha-rage", I think that is why.

Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Posts: 809

I don't think they should ban it, although they are French and have their own ways. Rather they should outlaw the imposition of such clothing, so that women cannot be forced to wear them, giving them the choice.

Posted: Mon 22 Jun 2009 12 46 pm

Bestbear wrote:

I am sure there are some women for whom the burkha is "liberating",

Yeah... the ugly ones

And then there are those women whose adoption of the burkha would be liberating for the rest of us.

Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 2977 Location: North of Watford

Looks like Sarkozy agrees with the sentiment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/22/islamic-veils-sarkozy-speech-france

Spartacus

Posted: Tue 23 Jun 2009 5 19 pm

I think the main cause for uneasiness about the burkha is the unquestionable fact that it could cover a multitude of sins.

I don't know that it has actually been used to hide an explosive corset in Europe - though it may well have been in other countries. But given the inhibiting effect on security men of the PC fear of upsetting Muslims, I think it is amazing that it has not yet been used in this way here.

If, indeed, it has not ....