Confucius, he say, before posting read whole strand. The expression I used was "No Hope Street". Not Working Class street or Blue Collar Street. I certainly didn't originate in No Hope Street and I suspect that the folk you named wouldn't think they did either. And before you ask, I didn't say that everyone in the army, sport or showbiz was from there either ... :wink: Spartacus

He wasn't an exception, Highlander. His story could be repeated many thousands of times. Not least among the high fliers of the labour party, who then pulled up the ladder behind them in the interest of equality. But, in fairness, you would have to say that the same thing can happen with a comprehensive education - but it can be far more of a struggle for the boy or girl. The whole point of the grammar school was to put the children in an environment where hard work and accomplishment was normal. rather than something despised by the majority. Of course, Sparty will now tell us that there are many comprehensives where this ethos prevails ... but there are many more, mostly in "no hope street" areas, where this is far from the case. The "good comprehensive" tends to be in the middle-class area. The "bog standard" comprehensive is elsewhere. My new neighbour is supply teaching in a secondary modern. He says it is the first time he has arrived at a school where no one in the staff room has warned him against specific disruptive pupils. I am not sure this proves anything, but it seemed to echo Mrs Bear's youthful teaching experience in a secondary modern that was a happy school where pupils were excelling, but in different subjects from those on offer in the grammar schools.

At the time my uncle went to the Grammar and my father to the "county modern", the Grammar was the only school offering any exams. My father did not sit any and so has no qualifications, not having bothered to take up later offers of night classes, etc. I did, and always do, read the full posting. Not sure that there ever was a No Hope Street that was apart from Working Class Street. Even today, some kids from the non-working/benefit claiming "no hopers" do break out from their natural habitat and make it into one of the better schools. No Hope is a state of mind, and even in the worst of the 'can't be assed' communities there will be some who strive for greater things.

i think 5% :D

Here in the US the Heritage Foundation did a major study to determine who joins the military. The conclusion was that the people that serve in the military are generally more educated and come from slightly wealthier families than those that don’t serve. In this modern era of all volunteer forces is it any different in the UK than the US? Isn’t the military in the UK relatively well educated and represent a reasonable cross section of society? I would be surprised if the answer was different in the UK. It is too bad the man was killed in battle at an early age. Unfortunately a bullet or an IED doesn’t ask for proof of age before doing its intended job.

I am admitedly out of touch with the military these days. But have we abolished the Royal Army Education Corps? Since before the Second World War, certainly, the army has educated its men in general subjects, as well as in trades proficiency. I have my father's Army Education First Class Certificate to prove it. He went from his family of "woodcutters" (true!) to become the RSM of a famous cavalry regiment by the time he was thirty.

Most victims of War are now Children http://www.questionwar.com/children.html Most Victims are Children As wars have developed in the twentieth century, the ratio of civilian deaths to military deaths has changed radically. One hundred years ago 5% of war casualties were civilians. In World War I civilian deaths were about 10%. In World War II, 65%. Tactics of modern wars have shifted casualties to 90% civilians. More than half of these civilian casualties are children less than 14 years of age. This is only the direct casualties from bombs, bullets and landmines. Add to this indirect and long-term casualties caused by destroyed infrastructure and a fractured society. resulting in disease, starvation, homelessness and the numbers become even more grim. On top of this add the long term effects of highly toxic armaments rained down upon the victim country – Agent Orange in Viet Nam, Depleted Uranium in Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan – and the result is generations of suffering borne by civilians, mostly children. Your tax dollars pay for this. Your politicians vote for it. Your media obscures it. And a few profit from it. Do something. Learn more. Talk about it. "War, we must realize, is the massive and indiscriminate killing of human beings. War, is always fundamentally a war against children. And therefore, whatever just cause is presented to us, whether true or invented, whatever words are thrown at us about fighting for liberty or democracy or against tyranny, we must reject war as a solution." -- Howard Zinn boy The countries, the names, the skin colors change, but the story of these wretched ones is tragically similar. There is the one who is walking in the meadow, the one who is playing in the backyard or who is shepherding goats, the one who tills the ground or who gathers its fruits. Then the blast . . . . Djamila felt a metallic click under her foot and had a fraction of a second to think before her left leg disintegrated . . . . Many others like Esfandyar do not remember a thing. A deafening noise and they are hurled on the ground. They wrapped Esfandyar in a big sheet, and they loaded him in the back of a farm truck. Esfandyar did not complain-the father told us - not of the pain, nor of the uneven roads. It was as if he were sleeping. And he was still in that drowsy state when he arrived at the emergency room of our hospital . . . . He woke up different, Esfandyar, without an arm and a leg, and he will remain different, a young disabled person in a country so poor that it cannot afford to care for him. --Gino Strada, Green Parrots Copyright ©2005 QuestionWar.com. All rights reserved. Terms of use.