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Bestbear- 11-03-2009
No Tory EU referendum?
David Cameron to tell voters: no vote on Lisbon Treaty David Cameron is to tell the British people that a Conservative government will not give them a referendum on the European Union’s Lisbon Treaty. By James Kirkup, Political Correspondent http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6488240/David-Cameron-to-tell-voters-no-vote-on-Lisbon-Treaty.html The Tory party leader’s admission, which could come as early as Tuesday, will bring accusations that he has broken clear promises to grant a popular vote on the treaty. Mr Cameron gave voters an “iron-clad” promise in 2007 that a Conservative government would hold a popular vote on Lisbon. And, in May this year, he said: "A progressive reform agenda demands that we redistribute power from the EU to Britain and from judges to the people. We will therefore hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty." But today Mr Cameron gave his clearest signal yet that he will not hold a popular vote on the treaty, which creates the post of EU president and ends more than 50 British vetoes over European policy. Mr Cameron said that once the document is endorsed by all 27 EU members and comes into force, it will “not be a treaty” and will instead be part of European law. The last obstacle to the ratification of the treaty is likely to be removed today when the constitutional court in the Czech Republic rules that the treaty is compatible with the country's laws. Once the Czech court approves the Treaty, all that remains is for Vaclav Klaus, the Czech President, to sign it. Mr Klaus has repeatedly tried to block the treaty, but has now said he is prepared to sign it. Mr Cameron has publicly urged him to hold out, but yesterday he said: "I had always hoped that President Klaus wouldn't sign but it seems that times are changing." Tory sources said the Conservative leader could now formally abandon the referendum pledge today, even before the Czech leader signs. “We have to realistic and once the Czech court rules, we will have to accept the new reality. We might not wait for Klaus,” said a Conservative source. But last night Mr Cameron's suggestion that no referendum would be possible on a ratified treaty antagonised some Tory Eurosceptics and could anger voters who believed a Conservative Government would give them a vote. In 2007, a Daily Telegraph campaign demanding a referendum gathered more than 100,000 signatures. Speaking at a press conference in London today, Mr Cameron gave his signal that the Czech ratification of the treaty would change his policy. Asked to repeat his “cast iron” promise, Mr Cameron declined. Instead, he accepted that its ratification will mean a UK vote is no longer possible. “We want to have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty but clearly it seems we are getting closer to the point where the treaty is not going to be a treaty but becomes part of European law,” he said. Lawyers and other European governments say that a British referendum on a ratified treaty would become a vote on the UK’s entire membership of the EU. Mr Cameron has publicly ruled out any “in-or-out” vote on Europe. Senior Tories say that instead of a referendum on Lisbon, the Tories will now seek to renegotiate several of the changes it implements. A Tory source said: “It is clear that a post-ratification referendum is simply not possible. We will look at the parts of the treaty that are not acceptable and seek to renegotiate them.” Some Conservative opponents of European integration say that plan is enough for them. David Heathcote Amory, a Eurosceptic MP, said he accepted Mr Cameron’s reasoning: “You cannot have a referendum on something that doesn’t exist. I accept that and I shall wait to see what my leader proposes next.” But several others said they still expect Mr Cameron to honour his “iron-clad” promise and hold a referendum on the treaty regardless. Bill Cash, another leading Eurosceptic MP, said: “We need a full referendum on Lisbon as we were promised. No ifs or buts. This is about the Government of the UK operating in line with the democratic wishes of the electorate.” Barry Legg, of the sceptic Bruges Group, said: “David Cameron needs to come clean with the British people: why is he breaking his pledge to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty? How can David Cameron claim he’ll fight to repatriate powers from Brussels when he won’t even fight to implement his own past words? Opponents of the treaty from other parties also attacked Mr Cameron. Nigel Farage, the UK Independence Party leader, said: "We can now see how gutless and dishonest the Conservative Party has been about their intentions on a referendum.” Ian Davidson, a Labour MP who opposes the treaty said: “Those who capitulate and change their position once it is ratified betray the interests of the British people.” The ratification of Lisbon will allow the appointment of a new EU president. Gordon Brown is pushing for Tony Blair to get the job, although other EU leaders are resisting. In the Commons today, Mr Cameron mocked Mr Brown over his campaign, telling him: “When considering your efforts to get Tony Blair this job, won't most people in Britain feel this: it is completely unacceptable to see an unelected Prime Minister pushing for an unelected president under a treaty that no one was allowed to vote for?" Mr Brown responded by mocking Mr Cameron over his “iron-clad” promise and saying his renegotiation plan would be “fighting yesterday’s battles”.

Morris- 11-03-2009

The Euro fat cats have decided that the treaty will go through, regardless of the wishes of ordinary people. Mo

Bestbear- 11-03-2009

The Daily Telegraph now goes in for prophecy? It is telling us what will happen, rather than reporting what has happened! A quick look at the readers' comments shows how ready people are to feel betrayed by Cameron over Europe. IMHO a referendum pledge of some sort is now a political necessity if the Tories are to be the next gummint. Many make the point: If Lisbon was totally unacceptable before ratification, it is equally unacceptable once ratified. I shall wait to see. The suspicion remains that the Tories themselves had no firm idea what "we shall not let matters rest there" actually meant. Their minds must surely now be concentrating on fleshing out that statement. Brown and Blair are the ones who reneged on the promise to let the people have a say, but that could quickly be forgotten. The Tory leadership must surely understand how very damaging this issue could now become, not to Labour, but to Conservative hopes of a good election win. It will not take that many defectors to UKIP to put Brown back into No10.

Bulldog- 11-03-2009

Prediction - There will be no referendum.

Bestbear- 11-03-2009

Prediction - There will be no referendum. And therefore no Conservtive majority ...... ?

Bulldog- 11-03-2009

There will be a Conservative majority. But Cameron is not going to hold a referendum on Lisbon because Lisbon will already be ratified by then. The only way to escape Lisbon will be to leave the EU altogether, and that is not something that any likely British "government" is going to consider (nor risk giving the British public a vote on) There will be a general fudge. Noises will be made about renegotiating certain parts of the UKs relationship with the EU. There will be some token concessions made by Brussels which in reality will amount to nothing. And the great con will rumble on. So it goes. One day it may all fall apart (hopefully!), but I'm not holding my breath.

Morris- 11-03-2009

Blimey Bulldog, I'm surprised you stay there (Blighty). France is no better of course. I fancy New Zealand.. Mo

Bulldog- 11-03-2009

Blimey Bulldog, I'm surprised you stay there (Blighty). France is no better of course. I fancy New Zealand.. Mo As soon as my kids have finished school Mo' Any possibly sooner.

Bulldog- 11-03-2009

"Conservative Home" have set up an online survey on what Tory Lisbon?EU policy should be. Link from here http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2009/11/quick-cameron-must-announce-the-new-tory-policy-on-europe-as-soon-as-possible.html

Morris- 11-03-2009

Better to move when the kids have the chance of adapt to a new culture (ie at school) IMO. Or are you planning to leave them behind ? Mo

Bulldog- 11-03-2009

Better to move when the kids have the chance of adapt to a new culture (ie at school) IMO. Or are you planning to leave them behind ? Mo Well, I have one aged 16, one aged 13 and one of 7. The older two have both said that they don't see themselves living in the UK when they are older. The big barrier to emigrating is my missus (for family reasons) but her line on this seems to be softening. I would go tomorrow.

Morris- 11-03-2009

Bulldog, you are welcome to join me on the Cote, we'll start up a real ale pub, it'll be a runaway success, I can see it already... sawdust on the floor, pork scratchings... Mo

Bulldog- 11-03-2009

Bulldog, you are welcome to join me on the Cote, we'll start up a real ale pub, it'll be a runaway success, I can see it already... sawdust on the floor, pork scratchings... Mo Yes but... the French you see.... the French :evil:

Bulldog- 11-03-2009

Anyway, I thought you were fed up with France and the wanderlust was itching again?

Morris- 11-03-2009

Hmmm... trouble is Bulldog, I don't really have anywhere to go, the prospect of the UK isn't a pleasant one, I fancy Aus but it isn't simple to get a visa, Canada is a bit shilly in the winter and the Americans are all crazy... Beijing is an option but I'm not sure my body could handle the air there... And of course the sun is shining this morning, the westerly wind has cleared the air and the mountains look fantastic... Mo

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