Fine times

Fine times
Spurious Orwell references are almost as annoying as home secretaries. I fear my teeth may crack the next time this week I hear another person liken our living surveillance state to 1984 in a way that indicates they have understood neither. And yet, this week the £125 "fine" imposed for taking too long to eat a burger, brought to my mind an image from Orwell's Animal Farm: the final scene where the animals look from men to pigs and pigs to men and see the difference has vanished. I have nothing particularly against McDonald's. They can, for all I care, charge as much as they like for parking on their property - just as long as it is a genuine agreement by both parties. But using DVLA records to find out where customers live has an unpleasant bullying character. <snip> Wherever compliance is demanded, the method is in use, increasing supervision and reversing the burden of proof as it goes: millions of "penalty notices" for late tax returns will be doled out by the HMRC computer shortly. Your children not logged in the electronic register at school? Have a penalty notice. Rubbish out at the wrong time? Have a penalty notice. Fail - some time in the future, pending a Big Computer - to report you've moved to the national identity register? Have a penalty notice. We used to expect trial and proof before punishment for public wrongs; a claim for an actual loss for civil ones. But surveillance and punishment (not alternatives, M Foucault), are displacing isolated disputes or the idea individuals are equal to organisations. <snip> http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/guy_herbert/2007/12/fine_times.html

Re: Fine times
But using DVLA records to find out where customers live has an unpleasant bullying character Is that right? Are they really using the DVLA records? Outrageous if true. And what of the ID database, who's going to be given access to that?

I would have thougt that 'over time' parking on private property would be a civil matter. In which case, how can a person/organisation resort to the Police and in turn the DVLA to pursue their case? Having said that, it does not take a private investigator more than 20 minutes to get the address attached to a number plate, but the cost of doing it that way would outweigh the £120.

I would have thougt that 'over time' parking on private property would be a civil matter. In which case, how can a person/organisation resort to the Police and in turn the DVLA to pursue their case? Its very simple, McDonald's don't have to approach the Police to get the address of a car owner because they subscribe to a cut-down version of the DVLA database which is sold to suitable private companies by the government. Lots of companies do this, for example, Tesco and many other supermarkets as well as private car-clamping companies. Having said that, it does not take a private investigator more than 20 minutes to get the address attached to a number plate, but the cost of doing it that way would outweigh the £120. If we assume that the PI doesn't have a subscription to the publicly accessible DVLA database then I suppose all they need to do is know someone in a company that does have access, or have a contact in the DVLA or Police. And what of the ID database, who's going to be given access to that? Well apart from all UK government departments, the Police, the NHS, other EU signatories to the Schengen agreement and doubtless the US government, we have been told by Brown that they will sell access to a cut-down version of the NIR to banks, shops, solicitors, estate agents and other suitable companies. (Brown has spun this as a way to make the NIR pay for itself - what a joke).

I would have thougt that 'over time' parking on private property would be a civil matter. In which case, how can a person/organisation resort to the Police and in turn the DVLA to pursue their case? Its very simple, McDonald's don't have to approach the Police to get the address of a car owner because they subscribe to a cut-down version of the DVLA database which is sold to suitable private companies by the government. Lots of companies do this, for example, Tesco and many other supermarkets as well as private car-clamping companies. Having said that, it does not take a private investigator more than 20 minutes to get the address attached to a number plate, but the cost of doing it that way would outweigh the £120. If we assume that the PI doesn't have a subscription to the publicly accessible DVLA database then I suppose all they need to do is know someone in a company that does have access, or have a contact in the DVLA or Police. And what of the ID database, who's going to be given access to that? Well apart from all UK government departments, the Police, the NHS, other EU signatories to the Schengen agreement and doubtless the US government, we have been told by Brown that they will sell access to a cut-down version of the NIR to banks, shops, solicitors, estate agents and other suitable companies. (Brown has spun this as a way to make the NIR pay for itself - what a joke). BL - Thanks for that information. But I'm astonished and shocked that personal data is being sold like this by the Government to commercial enterprises. Makes a joke of the Data Protection Act.

Having said that, it does not take a private investigator more than 20 minutes to get the address attached to a number plate, but the cost of doing it that way would outweigh the £120. I saw a parking attendant outside Somerfield supermarket this afternoon so I went and had a chat with him. He said that the DVLA charges the company £3 for the name and address of a car owner, apparently its a routine thing to trace an owner nowadays. I'm sure you already now about: http://www.192.com/ where you can put in the name of most UK residents and get out their address and even their telephone number for a small fee. They use the electoral rolls and other sources, so they have the addresses of people who are not in the phonebook.

Interesting recent article on this subject: The Driving and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) has made more than £9 million by selling motorists' personal details, it was revealed yesterday. For £2.50, private clamping and car parking firms can buy the personal records of any motorist caught staying too long on their property. The government body has extracted £9 million through the practice since 2002. Last year alone, the DVLA pulled in £3.7 million by selling the names, addresses of more than 1.3 million registered vehicle keepers to private firms. Armed with these details, along with vehicle registration marks, makes, models and colours, companies can then issue fines of up to £170 for breaching parking rules. MPs called yesterday for an immediate ban on the "appalling" practice. <snip> There are two ways in which private companies can obtain personal information on motorists through the DVLA. They can apply in writing for an individual's details, stating why they need them, and pay a £2.50 fee. But the DVLA, which keeps records of 38 million drivers, has also made it easier for firms to access the information by paying a £3,000 fee to view its database online. Parking firms that use the DVLA database to fine drivers are collectively raking in profits of more than £6 million a year. <snip> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/14/ndvla114.xml

No wonder they want us all on a central database. Imagine the dosh they can flog those details for.

Some of the lovely people the government sell our data to: Nearly 70 private firms, including bailiffs, debt collectors, solicitors and finance companies, are allowed access to the database of the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, which holds personal information about Britain's 38million drivers. <snip> Creative Car Park Management uses a complex web of companies – making it difficult to see how much money is earned from its clamping operation. It has the dubious distinction of having allegedly charged the highest fee on record – £750 – to release a car that had been immobilised and then taken away on a pick-up truck, according to the RAC Foundation. It installs cameras at the entrances and exits to its sites to record the numberplates of drivers who, the company alleges, stay beyond the "free parking" limit. Its clients include several large property companies, hospitals and the Co-op and Aldi supermarket chains. Between April 2007 and March 2008, CCPM purchased the personal details of 21,326 motorists by providing the DVLA with car registration numbers. <snip> Other operators on the DVLA's "approved" list include National Clamps, which admits to immobilising 10,000 vehicles a year, London parking enforcer VCS, which won the RAC's "Dick Turpin" award in 2005 for the "legalised mugging" of drivers, and Excel Parking Services, whose claim against a motorist over a £300 unpaid fine was thrown out of court in March after the judge said Excel's high charges were intended to "frighten or intimidate" – so were unlawful. In 2005, The Mail on Sunday revealed that the DVLA was selling names and addresses to a Portsmouth wheel-clamping firm run by two convicted criminals. <snip> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=567064&in_page_id=1770

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